Midland Leagues Latest

Alan Towe trawls the greater Birmingham area to bring you the latest league updates:

The results from week twelve of the Sheldon and District Winter League had no effect on the premier division or division one whatsoever. In the Premier a 7-2 win at Sheldon Dukes keeps Sheldon Marlborough Arrows top of the division with a perfect 18 points from their nine games and they are now the only team in the league to remain undefeated, they have a lead of four points over both Langley Arrows and Dunky’s Boys. Langley Arrows were also 7-2 winners playing at home against Raven Arrows, they have a game in hand on the leaders while Dunky’s were again 7-2 winners at home against Hollywood Social. Fourth in the division, Highwood Gerry’s Boys made it four 7-2 wins in the premier for the four games played when they defeated Kingshurst Labour Club. Alex Edwards (Sheldon Dukes) hit a maximum.

In division one there were three games and they all finished with 6-3 scorelines. Langley Flights lead the way in the division with sixteen points after adding a 6-3 win at Maggies to their account, they are four points to the good on both Yardley Ex Colts and Journeys End, Yardley winning at home against Hornet and Journeys winning at Shirley Misfits.

The top-of-the-table clash between second-placed Iron Horse Rebels and leaders Brian’s Flights was postponed with the two teams holding on to the top two places. Trident Spears reduced the arrears on the leaders to four points with a 5-4 home win over Hampton and Solihull Cricket Club and take over from their opponents in third place, both teams are on fourteen points.

Full Results:Week 12:Premier Division:- Highwood Gerry’s Boys 7 (Nigel Byrne 103f) Kingshurst Labour Club 2, Dunky’s Boys 7 Hollywood Social 2, Sheldon Dukes 2 (Alex Edwards 180) Sheldon Marlborough Arrows 7, Langley Arrows 7 (Bobby Nixon 10 darts game) Raven Arrows 2, Division One:- Yardley Ex Colts 6 Hornet 3, Shirley Misfits 3 Journeys End 6, Maggies 3 Langley Flights 6, Willclare Sports and Social and The Dingle had a bye, Division Two:- The Raven 6 Castle Bromwich WMC 3, The Trident Spears 5 (Kenneth Brush 11 darts game) Hampton and Solihull Cricket Club 4, Lyndon Old Boys 5 (Dave Sheridan 167f) Sheldon Marlborough Ridge 4, Iron Horse rebels v Brian’s lights was postponed, The Irish Centre had a bye.

———————————

A 6-3 home win over fifth placed Copper Fox ‘R’ has seen leaders of the Harborne and District League Bugle Horn get one hand on the winners silverware with thirty-eight points from twenty games as second in the league Northfield Conservative Club, despite winning 8-1 at home against Cock Inn and also having a game in hand are four points short of the leaders and trail massively on average with just three more games to play, Bugle Horn having just two. Northfield Conservative also have a game in hand on third placed Smethwick Cricket Club, their 7-2 home win over Bourneville leaving them two points short of the Conservative Club and four to the good on fourth in the table Northfield Town who were the week’s biggest winners handing out a 9-0 whitewash to their host Weoley Castle WMC.

Full Results:Game 20:- Weoley Castle WMC 0 (S.Joyce 2×100,140, S.Pasetti 4×100,140, A.Heath 3×100, P.Coombs 100) Northfield Town 9 (M.Hopkins 100,115,125, A.Busby 180, S.Busby 2×100, D.Hopkins 100,110f,123, L.Allen 100,140, M.Lloyd 132f,3×140,12 darts game), Smethwick Cricket Club 7 (M.Collins 3×100, P.Brookes 4×100,140, T.Brennan 100,140, F.Johnson 3×100,121,134,140, M.Tibbetts 3×100,123f) Bourneville 2 (P.Smith 104f,125, M.Ferriday 2×100,132, N.Hurst 2×100,140, D.Miguel 2×100, G.Bailles 3×100,140, M.Hanley 2×100, A.Bailles 125), Bugle Horn 6 (N.Steventon 2×100,140, D.Nicholls 4×100,2×140, J.Hykin 140, P.Sitshebo 2×100, S.Sheridan 2×100,2×125) Copper Fox ‘R’ 3 (E.Simpson 2×100,130,140, T.McGlone 121, M.Hamilton 100, T.Hamilton 100,140, R.Mann 2×100,117, N.Porter 2×100,121,140), Quinton RBL 5 (D.McConomy 100, D.Ingram 100,107, A.Mills 100,121, S.Gallagher 138) Avenue Social 4 (A.Williams 2×100, T.Williams 100, V.Gilliland 100, C.Morgan 100,140, K.Vanbelkum 100), Copper Fox ‘M’ 7 (D.Kent 2×100,140, J.Downer 100, K.Jukes 3×100, J.Loughran 2×100,122, A.Harvey 2×100, G.Dews 3×100,118) The Mill 2 (D.Davy 100, J.Goulding 2×100, K.Pearsall 116), Northfield Conservative Club 8 (S.Jones 3×100,121,140, A.Sutton 3×100,125,135, T.Garfield 2×100,108,140, D.Hill 100,125,135,140,180, T.Shipley 100,180, R.Hosey 2×100,101,2×140,15 darts game, W.Marshall 100, S.Cartwright 100, D.Hill 106f) Cock Inn 1 (L.Fox 118,125, Joe Fox 140, A.Vaughan 100, K.Vaughan 100, John Fox 100).

———————————

The Camp Hill League held their presentation night for last season at Moseley Arms where the top award for winning the league title went to Aston Inn Nomads, with Cotterills Lane EBAHA Club winning the League Cup.

———————————

The latest result for the Four Oaks and District League saw no changes in the division one placings with the top half teams playing and defeating the bottom half teams. An emphatic 8-1 by divisional leaders Nomad Flights and a last-gasphilltop winner for second-placed Old Oscott Arrows leaves the Nomads two points clear at the top of the table on sixteen points. Third and fourth placed Highcroft Social and Old Horns Lions both won 5-4 against respective opponents Heartlands and Golden Hind Lions, both teams on the same fourteen points as Old Oscott Arrows.

Oscott Social won the final game of the evening 2-0 against second in the division Minworth Flights and now sits top of the second division with a two points lead, however, Minworth do have a game in hand on Oscott Social.

F.Naylor (Old Horns Lions) hit a 180 and J.Alexander (Highcroft Social) chalked up his third maximum this season.

Full Results:Game 10:Division One:- Charley’s Flights 1 (R.Franks 120b,100, P.Nicholls 124, T.Barnfield 100, A.Gough 100) The Nomads 8 (D.Larvin 108b, T.Colley 2×100,131, C.Winters 2×100,140), Red Lion 3 (L.Vickers 140, B.Hughes 112b,2×140, T.Vickers 133, D.Vickers 105,100) Bishop Vesey 6 (N.Smallwood 120b, S.Abbott 2×100, A.Jones 2×100, N.Sammons 140,2×100, C.Sammons 105b,2x130b), Walmley CSC Flights 4 (G.Gaughan 112b,120,100,125, J.Kavanagh 123, B.Cadby 101b, K.Green 120b,2×100,140, B.Liggins 152b,100,112b,117, J.Meredith 100) Old Oscott Arrows 5 (A.Lea 100, P.Locke 3×100,125, D.Parsons 120,100, B.Trayhern 100,149f,125,140, D.Page 100, M.Maher 121), Golden Hind Lions 4 (D.Haynes 101b, N.Goldie 121, J.Mahon 100, A.Lilley 100) The Old Horns Lions 5 (P.Byrne 160b, 8 darts game, M.Ashton 3×100,105f, A.Kimberley 105b,137, B.Stephens 4×100,2×137,118, T.O’Kereke 101,140,100, F.Naylor 180), Highcroft Social 5 (L.Shorthouse 100, S.Pritchett 112b,140,100,121, K.Shorthouse 137,2×100, S.Alexander 100, J.Alexander 100,180, T.Pallett 100) Heartlands 4 (Matthew Cain 112b,140,100, John Frost 125,5×100, J.Rogers 116b,123,100, Jim Frost 100), Division Two:- Pint Pot Flights 7 (M.Bagnall 3×100, L.Lemathy 2×140, M.Phillips 2×100, P.Smith 118f,100) Rosey Mac’s 2 (N.Bradley 140, J.Cox snr 129,2×100, S.Wintle 110b,100,140), Erdington Arrows 8 (L.Cooksey 180,2×100, A.Linehan 100,135, M.Phillips 2×140,125,100, M.Edwards 100, H.Sadler 121) Sutton Sharks 1 (M.Taylor 100, D.Gardener 137), The Funky Bear 3 (L.Williams 100, G.Robotham 100, S.Robotham 120b, A.Trimwater 100, S.Murcott 100) Deers Leap 6 (L.Sinclair 120b, T.Ross 120b,125,2×140, L.Somers 121, A.Kimberley 100, K.Andrews 100), Minworth Flights 4 (C.O’Neil 114b,105,121, N.Clarke 140,100,102f, K.Deeley 120b,100,131, K.Reynolds 100,101, R.Barritt 136) Oscott Social Club 5 (D.Shannon 100, I.Lloyd 123, P.Graham 110b,139, G.Bushell 100b,139,100, S.Shorthouse 116), St Thomas Arrows 6 (D.Wakelam 120,140, M.Ansell 152, R.Nelson 100, M.Andrews 132, P.Andrews 113) Sutton Sports and Social 3 (K.Coleman 100, J.P.Roddy 2×140, P.Ryder 100, R.Snelson 100,115), Plough and Arrows 4 (L.Dudley 140, S.Johnson 137,100, A.Humphriss 2×100, K.Gow 2×100,140, D.Hughes 100) The Scott Armers 5 (J.Parry 100, O.Day 3×100, L.Parry 2×100, M.Felkin 160b,2×100,133,140,147f, Jamie Sabin 100, T.Kelly 2x120b,100).

———————————

Allens ‘A’ drop from top to third in the Hilltop Friendly Tuesday Night League following their 4-3 home defeat at the hands of the Cottage Spring team, this being the first reversal of the season so far for Allens. Taking over at the top of the table is Horseley Tavern whose 4-3 home win over Vine ‘B’ takes their unbeaten run to three games and gives them a two points lead over Vine ‘A’, Allens ‘A’, Cottage Spring, Ivy Bush and Allens ‘B’. Cottage Spring are the only other team, after the opening three games, besides Horseley to have a 100% win record but they have only played two games so far.

Full Results:Game 3:- Vine ‘A’ 7 Sow and Pigs 0, Allens ‘A’ 3 Cottage Spring 4, Albion 3 Tamebridge 4, Horseley Tavern 4 Vine ‘B’ 3, Ivy Bush 3 Allens ‘B’ 4, Waggon and Horses had a bye.

———————————

As the Stourbridge and District Monday Night League move into the second half of their season game eighteen saw the top six teams win, those wins including a 7-0, 4×6-1 and 5-2 results. The top three teams Cross (Oldswinford), Old Liberal Club and Netherton Conservative Club in turn all won 6-1 against Crestwood, Bird in Hand and Rose and Crown ‘B’ while fourth in the table The Princess handed out a 7-0 whitewash to their visiting team Old Cat Inn. Ten Arches are placed fifth and they were 6-1 winners at home against Rose and Crown ‘A’ with sixth in the league Bell winning 5-2 at Fox Inn (Lye). The win by Cross (Oldswinford) took their winning run to seventeen games but despite that they still only have a two point’s lead over Old Liberal Club. Netherton Conservative Club and The Princess are both on twenty-eight points, six off the top.

Full Results:Game 18:- Church Tavern 5 Britannia 2, Glasscutters 0 Gate Hangs Well 7, Old Liberal Club 6 Bird in Hand 1, Rose and Crown’B’ 1 Netherton Conservative Club 6, Seven Stars 4 Mount Pleasant 3, Ten Arches 6 Rose and Crown ‘A’ 1, Cross (oldswinford) 6 Crestwood 1, Fox Inn (Lye) 2 Bell 5, The Princess 7 Old Cat Inn 0, Raven had a bye.

———————————

The Netherton Thursday Night League played their Doubles Knockout down to the last eight pairs and lining–up for the quarter-finals on the 29^th June will be, K.Cooksey & D.Brown (Dudley Ex Serviceman’s Club ‘A’), G.Male & P.Mallen (Netherton Sports and Social Club ‘A’), C.Wakeman & J.Brookes (Spring Meadow), R.Turner & M.Kendall (Dudley Ex Serviceman’s Club ‘A’), C.Hadlington & S.Charlesworth (Spring Meadow), P.Nicholls & H.Williams (Dudley Ex Serviceman’s Club ‘B’), K.Wright & S.Tipper (Bulls Head), P.Hadley & D.Homer (Townsend Social Club).

Full Results:Doubles Knockout:Board Winners:- K.Cooksey & D.Brown (Dudley Ex Serviceman’s Club ‘A’), G.Male & P.Mallen (Netherton Sports and Social Club ‘A’), C.Wakeman & J.Brookes (Spring Meadow), R.Turner & M.Kendall (Dudley Ex Serviceman’s Club ‘A’), C.Hadlington & S.Charlesworth (Spring Meadow), P.Nicholls & H.Williams (Dudley Ex Serviceman’s Club ‘B’), K.Wright & S.Tipper (Bulls Head), P.Hadley & D.Homer (Townsend Social Club).

———————————

Sixteen teams lined up for the new season in the Rowley Monday Night League and after only completing the opening four fixtures just reigning champions Bell are able to boast a 100% win record, they stretched their unbeaten run to four in style by handing their opponents Huntingtree a 9-0 defeat. The win opens up a two points lead for Bell as second and third teams White Swan and Hill and Cakemore squared up to each other with the latter inflicting a first defeat on White Swan and getting the 6-3 result to lift them up one place to second with their opponents dropping two places to fourth, however the chasing pack of six teams Hill and Cakemore, Gate Hangs Well, White Swan, Windmills End, Plough and Harrow and Spring Meadow are all on four points, two behind Bell.

Full Results:Week 4:- Windmills End 7 Wonder 2, Waterfall 1 Whiteheath Tavern 8, Rowley Labour Club 3 Plough and Harrow 6 (Steven Siviter 154b,146b, T.Barr 180), Hill and Cakemore 6 White Swan 3, Loyal Lodge 3 Gate Hangs Well 6 (Connor Chander Allen 9 darts game), Spring Meadow 5 Tividale FC 4, Rowley Bar and Grill 3 Romsley Cricket Club 6, Bell 9 Huntingtree 0.

———————————

The Stourbridge and District Wednesday Night League played their final league fixtures of the season and with a 6-1 win at Stourbridge FC, Quarry Bank Labour Club clinched the title with a total of 48 points, two more than runners-up Bird in Hand ‘E’ whose A.Smith had a 156 checkout and a nine darts game as they won their final game 4-3, a close result away to Ten Arches who as a result of their loss dropped one place in the table to fourth with Hollybush pipping them to third place with two more points after winning 5-2 at Dudley Sports.

Ashwood ended their campaign with a 4-3 home win over Black Horse which was enough to see them win the Shadow League, but only just as runners-up Shovel won by the same 4-3 margin against Bell ‘B’ but fell short of the champions by just two legs of average.

Full Results:Game 26:- Raven 2 Fox Inn (Lye) 5, Dudley Sports 2 Hollybush 5, Bell ‘A’ 7 Brickmakers Arms 0, Stourbridge FC 1 QuarryBank Labour Club 6, Ten Arches 3 Bird in Hand ‘E’ 4 (A.Smith 156f,9 darts game), Shovel 4 Bell ‘B’ 3, Ashwood 4 Black Horse 3.

———————————

A 3-2 home win over ECC was not enough for Dog and Partridge to hold on to pole position as they dropped to second place in the West Midlands Men’s Super League with Kings Head ‘A’ replacing them after their 5-0 clean-sweep over Gilbert’s ‘D’. With both of the top two teams on nineteen points, third placed Bridgtown Social are four short of them despite winning 5-0 away to Chase Social. Kings Head ‘A’ and Dog and Partridge are the only remaining teams from an initial line-up of thirteen to remain unbeaten after only three games.

Full Results:Week 3:- Kings Head ‘A’ 5 Gilbert’s ‘D’ 0 (Owen Maiden 4 Jordon Smith 0, Matthew Dennant 4 Rushpal Bhogal 0, Mark Maidan 4 Chris Evans 1, Chris Stanley 4 Chris Hill 0, Richard Platt 4 Lee Shaw 1), Chase Social 0 Bridgtown Social 5 (George Coulter 0 Ian Jones 4, Sean Craig 3 Wayne Willis 4, Kieron O’Mahoney 3 Kevin Bambrick 4, Roger Harris 2 Mark Craddock 4, Adam Johnson 3 Mick Baker 4), Gilbert’s ‘A’ 2 Corpus Christi 3 (Simon Mountford 4 Kieron O’Driscoll 0, Steve Lynch 4 Pat Garner 2, Paul Harrison 1 Dave Lucas 4, Jon Blakemore 3 Craig Jones 4, Reece Cook-Lucas 1 Andrew Jarvis 4), Staffordshire Knot 3 Gilbert’s ‘B’ 2 (Mark Rollinson 1 Ryan O’Connor 4, Ian Stanton 2 Martin Price 4, Luke Wildman 4 Ben Johnson 1, Paul Price 4 Shane Sheridan 2, Jamie Hughes 4 Rob Thompson 1), Dog and Partridge 3 ECC 2 (Darren Williams 1 Karl Hughes 4, Gavin Baker 1 Jack Aldridge 4, Dean Simmons-Fullwood 4 Greg Parks 0, Ash Khayat 4 Ryan Locker 2, Wayne Jones 4 Luke Griffiths 1), Three Crowns 0 Kings Head ‘B’ 5 (Roger Ward 1 Sean Jennings 4, Riley Ward 1 Clark Cook 4, Jon Williams 0 Stewart Pryce 4, Paul Penfold 2 Kevin Taylor 4, Emmet Leonard 0 Ian Tolly 4), Gilbert’s ‘C’ had a bye.

———————————

In the Black Country Thursday Night Singles League Nick Fullwell added a 7-1 win over Cheryl Allcock and a 6-2 success over his nearest rival Rich Bowen to his tally to give him a total of thirty-three points from his opening four games and at the same time open up a four advantage over Gareth Johnston who takes over from Bowen in second place after he beat Nick Whitehouse 6-2 and then lost 5-3 to Rich Bowen. Third placed Bowen is on twenty-six points three behind Johnston.

Biggest climber of the week is Benjamin Hollowood who after only playing one fixture in the opening week got up-to-date by playing three games in this week two. Hollowood began the night with a 6-2 win over Justin Evans he then won by the same margin against Alex Howells and completed his trio of games and wins with his best victory of the night a 7-0 success against Sarah Jane Parker. With a total of twenty-five points Hollowood leapt up from fifteen in the league to a lofty fourth position just four points short of second in the table Johnston.

Full Results:Week 2:- Benjamin Hollowood 6 Justin Evans 2, Gareth Johnston 6 Nick Whitehouse 2, Grace Angell 5 Danny Bridgwood 3, Nick Fullwell 7 Cheryl Allcock 1, Nick Whitehouse 6 Danny Knight 2, Benjamin Hollowood 6 Alex Howells 2, Rich Bowen 5 Gareth Johnston 3, Lewis Handley 7 Sarah Jane Parker 1, Shane Price 4 Justin Evans 4, Shane Passey 7 Cheryl Allcock 1, Grace Angell 5 Nick Whitehouse 3, Danny Knight 8 Alex Mason 0, Nick Fullwell 6 Rich Bowen 2, Benjamin Hollowood 7 Sarah Jane Parker 1, Alex Howells 7 Danny Bridgwood 1, Dennis Bull 6 Shane Passey 2, Justin Evans 5 Lewis Handley 3.

———————————

The Gilbert’s Bar Monday Night Singles League is up to week six and heading the division one table with forty-five points is Ben Johnson who on the night played against Paul Price and won 7-1. Johnson’s nearest rival is reigning champion Scott Baker who was surprisingly held to a 4-4 draw by Martin Angell who is currently bottom of the division.

Top of division two is Colin Wood who began the night with a 6-2 win over Jason Lloyd and followed that by handing Jon Williams a 7-0 whitewash to take his number of points to 44 and giving him a lead of two over second placed Clark Cook who won his game with Keith Hollowood 5-3. Former leader Tony Singh beat Allan Davies 6-2 to put him in third place on 41 points but with a game in hand on the two players above him.

Michele Pritchard consolidated her number one spot in division three with an 8-0 win over Andy Poole, Michele’s 53 points from seven games is twelve better than second placed Gemma Barrett Jenkins who after her 7-1 win against Eddie Gripton has played six.

Full Results:Week 6:-Martin Angell 4 Scott Baker 4, Ben Johnson 7 Paul Price 1, Simon Mountford 6 John Simms 2, Reece Cook Lucas 3 Ian Stanton 5, Rushpal Bhogal 4 Jamie Webb 4, Jon Blakemore 6 Simon Pritchard 2, Colin Wood 6 Jason Lloyd 2, Jason Hough 7 Malcolm Pugh 1, Jon Williams 4 Nathan Jones 4, Luke Shinton 1 Baljinder Gill 7, Allan Davies 2 Tony Singh 6, Keith Hollowood 3 Clark Cook 5, Colin Wood 8 Jon Williams 0, Alex Bryant 3 Warren Bower 5, Eddie Gripton 1 Gemma Barrett Jenkins 7, Thomas Hollowood 4 Joe Bartolo 4, Jacqui Simmons 6 Helen Sims 2, Sara Emma Jones 0 Jamie Aplin 8, Michele Pritchard 8 Andy Poole 0.

———————————

Nick Fullwell didn’t play in week ten of the Ashwood Premier League but nevertheless he held on to pole position with 134 points from 21 games. Chris Williams, despite losing his first game against Martyn Harper 5-2 moves up into second place adding further 7-0 and 5-2 wins against respective opponents Mitch Pickett and Wozza Pritchard to give him a total of 114 points from the same 21 games as Fullwell. Third placed John Green is just three points short of Williams with a game in hand after playing and winning 4-3 against Gavin Smith then losing 5-2 to Reece Colley.

Full Results:Week 10:- Neil Murphy 4 Carl Hipkiss 3, Ash Marson 4 Wozza Pritchard 3, Dave Simpson 7 Mitch Pickett 0, Reece Colley 4 Matt Davies 3, Martyn Harper 5 Chris Williams 2, Kevin Harris 4 Alan Bate 3, John Green 4 Gavin Smith 3, Gavin Smith 5 Carl Hipkiss 2, Jon Underhill 4 Jake Robinson 3, Sam Aitkens 6 Alan Bate 1, Martyn Harper 5 Ash Marson 2, Cayden Smith 5 Chris Fox 2, Tom Stockton 6 Rob Pierce 1, Ben Watts 4 Craig Lowin 3, Jayden Harper 7 Shane Passey 0, Dave Simpson 6 Craig Lowin 1, Tom Stockton 4 Kevin Harris 3, Gavin Smith 5 Neil Murphy 2, Matt Davies 6 Jack Pritchard 1, Josh Pickett 6 Carl Hipkiss 1, Martyn Harper 5 Chris Fox 2, Chris Williams 7 Mitch Pickett 0, Reece Colley 5 John Green 2, Cayden Smith 7 Jake Robinson 0, Jack Pritchard 6 Carl Hipkiss 1, Chris Williams 5 Wozza Pritchard 2, Craig Lowin 4 Jon Underhill 3, Martyn Harper 5 Jayden Harper 2, Sam Aitkens 4 Josh Pickett 3, Alan Bate 4 Ben Watts 3, Shane Passey 4 Rob Pierce 3.

———————————

The Shirley and District Monday Night League have reached the halfway stage of their season and in division one Dunky’s Boys beat Sharmans Swords 5-4 in what was a top of the table clash, Dunky’s came from 4-3 down to win the last two doubles to clinch their victory.

Tippetts Bar, with a 6-3 win against Magpies have moved up into second place in the table while Vikings got their second win of the season beating Solihull Municipal 6-3, Lions accounted for Shirley Legion Royals with a 6-3 scoreline.

In division two Saracens Misfits take over the top spot after they beat title contenders Wharf 7-2. The Highwood won their tie with Saracens Head 6-3 while Sharmans Cross got the better of Yardley Wood Social Club winning 5-4 and moving up into third place in the division.

Full Results:Division One:- Magpies 3 Tippetts Bar 6, Sharmans Swords 4 Dunky’s Boys 5, Solihull Municipal 3 Vikings 6, Shirley Legion Royals 3 Lions 6, Cider House had a bye, Division Two:- Saracens Misfits 7 Wharf 2, Saracens Head 3 Highwood 6, Yardley Wood Social Club 4 Sharmans Cross 5, Saracens Slingers and HSCC had a bye.

————-ENDS——————–

Alan Towe writes with the support of Red Dragon Darts

Grab a copy of the 50th Anniversary Darts World 581 here (while stock lasts) or the new Issue 582 here :